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A big thank you goes out to everyone for writing such long and thoughtful responses to the quiz I posted a few days ago. If you haven’t gotten a chance to read it yet, you can check it out here.

I think the biggest mistake that people make with a hand like JJ in early position is that we don’t fully realize how situationally dependent a hand like this is. There are so many variables in playing hands like this a cash game that I can’t really give a solid answer either way. The real point of this quiz is to test yourself to make sure you are considering the correct things and to see if you understand how different variables should affect your decision. These can be some of the best exercises for your poker muscles.

Against a mix of mostly tight and straightforward players, sometimes I limp and sometimes I raise. This holds true, although they become progressively more of a limp, with hands like TT-88 and on down through the pocket pairs. Personally, the decision whether or not I want to raise my pocket pair begins at JJ. Hands like AA/KK/QQ are hands I definitely want a raise going in with (although a limp/reraise may sometimes be the line I choose). However, in games where it is tight and straightforward(which means it is somewhat aggressive) I tend to prefer limping hands as opposed to raising them in spots such as these. If the game was a little bit looser, or you have one opponent in particular who plays a loose-tight style, then raising starts to look better for all pocket pairs JJ and lower¹ . I want to speak a lot about limping because a lot of players don’t consider it a valid play.

So, why do I like limping?

The main reason is because 3-betting is a complete disaster. This is explained very well in “No-Limit Hold ‘Em Theory and Practice”, but the basic idea is that when you get 3-bet you destroy all your hand’s value. You can call a “standard” raise if you limp, but you can’t call a reraise(This is a good spot to think about hypotheticals. What are some variables that no longer make this statement true?). You could have had a hand that would have been able to see a flop at least 90% of the time, but now you have to fold. Instead of having an almost guaranteed profit, and a chance to stack someone, you are taking a loss. In fact, getting 3-bet sucks so badly that it sucks WAY more than winding up with JJ in a multiway pot. If you don’t like JJ in multiway pots or you think that you need to thin out the field, you should probably read this post.

Ok, so getting 3-bet sucks. That doesn’t necessarily mean that raising isn’t better still though. There is value in a raise, right? Let’s break it down to it’s basic components.

Raising has three main variables:

- How much you make off of worse hands calling.

- How much you make postflop when you aren’t 3-bet preflop.²

- How much you lose when you are 3-bet.

Limping has four main variables:

- How much you expect to make preflop off of worse hands.

- How much you expect to make post flop in an unraised pot.

- How much you expect to make postflop in a raised pot.

- How much you expect to lose when it is raised and reraised behind you.

Do you think raising is automatically the better play when you start comparing these variables?

A lot of people don’t like playing JJ in a multiway pot. Look, I am not saying that it should be your ideal way to play the hand. I am saying that it still plays awkwardly in a raised heads-up pot when the effective stacks are 100BB and you are out of position. If you raise and get a call then it isn’t that great of a spot! Depending on the board, you will probably have to check at some point. If you start thinking about all the things that can happen(your bet is raised on the flop, what do you do on the turn here with an overpair, etc.) you will begin to realize how much it really sucks to be out of position in a raised pot. So, having JJ in a raised pot out of position isn’t that great of a spot a lot of times, even when you flop the hand that you are hoping to flop – an overpair. If you throw in the fact that you can be 3-bet and forced to fold you will quickly see the huge cons associated with raising it, or any small or medium pocket pair.³ However, if the pot is a bit smaller this will give you more wiggle room postflop. You will likely allow some players in with some worse hands that you may able to get value from since worse hands are actually end there and you have some deception. Also, your stack won’t be in jeopardy, or at least it shouldn’t be, as often since you will have a higher SPR.

Those are general statements. There are so many variables that you have to consider that it could take a whole book to write about all of the them. Let’s move on to my answers for the quiz.

Situation 1: You raise and you are reraised by a straightforward player.

- Do you call? Why or why not?

No, it is a fold. Your 3-bettor probably has a range of something like TT+/AQ+, and that may be a little wide. You don’t have good equity against his range. If he is only 3-betting JJ+/AK, you have 20% equity versus half of his range and 50% against the other half. You can logically deduce that your equity is about 35%. This doesn’t tell the entire story, of course. Preflop equity never does when there is money still to be bet. You are also out of position and are probably going to be a victim of reverse implied odds. You will probably get his stack when you flop a set, but you won’t get that much out of him if he has AK and misses. Also, don’t forget that you are going to lose your stack sometimes when he flops a set or when he hits a two-outter. Most of the time that he has AKo and misses(15% of the time) you will just get a c-bet at best. You can see that there is a lot of guessing that has to be done. Guessing in big pots leads to very costly mistakes.

- Does anyone 4-bet here? Why or why not?

Not against a straightforward player. You aren’t folding out any better hands and you are behind his range.

- What is your plan if you flop an overpair?

Even if you flop an overpair your situation is tough. You could check to let him bet his AK to try to catch his semi-bluff. However, he still has six outs in that case. This leaves you checking the turn as well because you won’t get any better hands to fold and you won’t get called by any worse hands. If he bets the turn you pretty much have to fold and sometimes that could have been AKo.

You also could bet, which would then allow you to “get away” from the hand if he raises. He probably won’t raise AKo when you show as much strength here, but he probably won’t call with it either. So, you miss the bluff-catching value you get with the check.

If he is a straightforward player there is validity to the point of betting small. He might call that with AKo, but he will tend to raise it with an overpair. This should give you a good idea of where you are at in the hand for a smaller price. However, if you think your opponent is aggressive enough to raise with AKo if you bet small then betting small loses its luster.

- What is your plan if you flop a set?

I generally bet out. He is going to have trouble folding an overpair and will probably just push it. The same value applies as before – you won’t get much out of AKo. Your target is his stack. Since his stack is somewhat larger than his typical c-bet size, winning his stack a little bit gets you a lot more money than winning a c-bet a lot. So, the question to ask yourself is how do you get him to get his stack in with a set. I like betting out for that purpose as it makes sure money is going into the center right away. However, your image can make both a check-raise or a check/call-push line can work. Just ask yourself how you think he will stack off with an overpair most often and then take that route(note that we are planning our hand when we are thinking like this). If your opponent is probably going to stack of with an overpair regardless then checking-calling the flop and betting out on the turn is probably the best play.

- How do you react if the flop contains and A and/or K?

Alex: “Today’s Jeopardy category is “What do I beat here?”. It is your turn, Jacob”

Jacob: “I will take “What do I beat here for one-hundred, Alex.”

Alex: “That answer is: You raise from early position with JJ and are reraised by a straightforward player. The stacks are 100BB deep. You call. The flop comes K-high.”

Jacob: “What is absolutely nothing?”

Alex: “That is correct. Your selection”

Yeah, check-fold.

For fun, how often is the flop coming with an overcard? That is a telling stat.

- What is your plan if the board contains and A and/or K and you flopped a set?

Lucky. It probably doesn’t matter too much what you do here. The stacks are going in the middle. You will occasionally be behind to a better set, but the SPR is way too low to even consider folding.

Situation 2: You raise and you are called by a straightforward player on the button.

- What is your plan if you flop an overpair?

This is very dependent on the texture of the flop and the aggressiveness of your opponent. The more coordinated it is, the more often you will have to bet because you don’t want him to draw for free. Against a straightforward player who is somewhat aggressive, you can check dry boards to let him think that his worse pocket pairs may be best. If he is somewhat passive then you make a bet here. It is a good spot to mix it up. The key thing to remember is the more aggressive/tricky your opponent is the more you have to check this flop.

- What is your plan if you flop a set?

This also depends on the coordination of the board and the aggressiveness of your opponents. If the board is pretty dry, it is a good spot to slowplay to try to get him to put in some bets with a worse hand. Unfortunately, you probably don’t have too many way for your opponent to get his stack in at this point unless he has a set himself.

- How do you react if the flop contains and A and/or K?

This will tend to be more of a bet here. You probably won’t get them to bet worse hands with the obvious pair cards on the board, so you are really wanting to find out what they have here. A smaller sized bet will tend to get that information and a few loose calls. Your plan should be to give up on the turn if you don’t improve.

- What is your plan if the board contains and A and/or K and you flopped a set?

You are really hoping that your opponent called with a big ace at this point. This comes down to your read on your opponent. You could overbet the pot, then bet the pot, and then push the river to get all-in. If your opponent is fairly aggressive you could bet about 3/4’s of the pot, hope to get raised, and then you can get the rest in with a turn check-raise or a turn call and river push. Formulate your plan and go from there.

Situation 3: You limp and are raised by a straightforward player in late position and everyone folds to you.

- Do you call? Why or why not?

You certainly can hall here. You have set value and your hand still has some value against a player in late position raising you.

- Does anyone 3-bet here? Why or why not?

There are some spots where 3-betting can be good. The key thing you need is this player to have a loose raising range. There is no point in 3-betting a guy who is only raising 88+/AQ+. You are just bloating a pot out of position with a hand that has a small equity edge and not much of a chance to get folds.

- What is your plan if you flop an overpair?

This is very similar to the situation 2. Your opponent probably has about the same range, maybe a bit wider, and is more likely to bet if you check to them. A check here makes sense as well. You are probably going to have to be careful on the turn though as you will not very likely to get your opponent to continue betting a worse hand, but you cannot bet for value. Being out of position sucks.

- What is your plan if you flop a set?

As explained before, you are aiming for your opponent’s stack. The hands you are targeting are going to be the overpair hands. It comes down to the same questions that were mentioned above, only now your have a much better chance of stacking your opponent.

- How do you react if the flop contains and A and/or K?

You probably just have to check fold here. Sure, they can be pushing you off the hand with a worse pocket pair. Imagine that they are and so you decide to defiantly call. Now, what is your plan on the turn?

Check-call? Probably not great.

Bet? Not very good either.

Check-fold? Probably what you have to do, but why did you call the flop then?⁴

- What is your plan if the board contains and A and/or K and you flopped a set?

Pretty much the same advice applies as before in situation 2. You have to think about your opponent and then go from there.

Situation 4: Two players limp behind and both of the blinds come along.

- What is your plan if you flop an overpair?

If it is checked to your then you can probably bet. Top pair, middle pair, bottom pair, draws, and worse pocket pairs may all call you here(depending on the board, of course). Also, since the SPR is much higher you won’t have to worry so much about being in bad shape on the turn.

If there is a bet you have to take into account who the opponent is it that bet, how many players are on your left and what their tendencies are, and the texture of the flop. If you want to raise you should tend to raise a small amount because you don’t want to bloat the pot, you want to get called by the initial bettor, and a small raise should be enough to get the pot heads-up. This is another of example being out of position biting you. This time it is a combination of being out of absolute position and being out of relative position.

- What is your plan if you flop a set?

If it is checked to you, consider betting a small amount if that will entice extra calls. Sometimes in small pots you can get a few extra calls that will help grow the pot. As long as the board isn’t too dangerous this can be a good spot to slowplay. Since these players are mostly tight, that is probably your best way to get someone’s stack since they probably won’t call bets larger than the pot.

- How do you react if the flop contains and A and/or K?

I like to take stabs in spots like this when no one may have anything. However, checking can be good here also. As always, it depends on many variables. If you check and it is checked around you will often be able to bet the turn with confidence and get some loose calls.

- What is your plan if the board contains and A and/or K and you flopped a set?

You probably want to get a little more aggressive here. You have a chance to get top-pair hands to put a lot of money in.

This quiz should help you think of scenarios that could happen. One of the key skills in No-Limit Hold ‘Em is planning your hand. Start planning your hand the second you look at your hole cards. This will allow you to keep yourself to a minimal amount of difficult decisions while putting your opponents to the hard decisions. This will tend to allow you to have other skills shine.

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1. The reason for this is that you can often get them to fold a bit too much postflop. Still, keep in mind that you are “getting out of line” when you are making plays like this with hands like 33. You are playing “too fast” out of position and you have to make sure you aren’t against opponents that will take advantage of this. [↩]
2. What I mean by this is that by raising you are cutting your implied odds. In a 100BB game you still have sufficient implied odds to call. However, it is worth thinking about stack odds of 13:1(raised pot) versus stack odds of 40:1(unraised pot). [↩]
3. This concept can turn on its back a little bit with a pocket pair like 22. Do you see why? [↩]
4. Against some loose aggressive players you can call the flop. [↩]

This entry was posted on Monday, October 22nd, 2007 at 8:55 pm and is filed under Common poker mistakes, Playing out of position. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.